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«I hugged the trees farewell. I promised to come back»

Refugee from Mykolaiv on everything the war stole from her and temporary asylum in Poland.

Tetiana Bakotska

Mykolaiv, November 2022.
Photograph: Nina Liashonok/UkrInform/Eastern News

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For eight years, I recorded stories from people, whose life had been destroyed by the Russo-Ukrainian war, as I worked as a journalist for the National Public Broadcasting Company in Mykolaiv. Since 2014, when the occupation of Crimea occurred and fighting began in eastern Ukraine, the heroes and heroines of my TV and radio programs, stories, reports, articles and sketches have been the Ukrainian troops, volunteers, internally displaced persons and refugees.

The new chapter of the great war has brought even more death and total ruin into my life. At 39 I became a widow of a fallen soldier, a refugee. I ended up alone in a foreign country with two children (a 6-month-old daughter and an 11 y.o. son), without any relatives, friends, or people I knew. Now I am forced to write my own story as a refugee to document Russian war crimes and record the memories of what I have experienced.

Battles for the South

The first Russian missiles of February 24 2022, fell one and a half kilometres away from my home - on a large military airfield «Kulbakine». Thanks to the intel intercepted by the Main Intelligence Agency of the Ministry of Defence, the 299th brigade had managed to get all the aircraft into the air before the air raid began. After the combined missile and bomb strikes, the airfield was attacked multiple times by convoys of occupational troops. On the evening of February 25, they entered our village, which is 4km away from Mykolaiv, from the direction of Kherson. We could not believe that this was our new reality. But after the rain, the enemy tanks got stuck in the field between my house and the airfield. Six vehicles still managed to infiltrate the military facility. They were met with fire by the service members of the tactical aviation brigade named after Lieutenant General Vasyl Nikiforov, under the command of Colonel Serhiy Samoylov. The National Guard fighters were helping. Facing resistance, the Russians fled. Some of them could not find the way back and hid in the forest strips where we used to gather mushrooms.

On March 4th, they came back. Approximately at noon, a Russian drone flew over the airfield, and Russian airborne combat vehicles drove through the streets of our village once again. About 400 Russians had entered the premises of the airfield. The fighting began. Our infantrymen decided to let them come close, as their resources were limited to small arms. The Russians were 200 metres away from the operations centre. And then, the airfield’s defenders began shelling them with artillery. The Russians retreated.

A year after this battle, the commander of the tactical aviation brigade named after Lieutenant General Vasyl Nikiforov, Serhiy Samoylov, said in an interview that it was a fateful victory. By defending the airfield, our warriors saved Mykolaiv.

Evacuation. I hugged the trees farewell

Evacuation was recommended to all residents of our Shevchenko community, as these grounds had become one of the epicentres of battles for Mykolaiv. People who had to remain there for various reasons lived under constant crossfire. Without water, electricity, gas, or medicine. They would extinguish the fires caused by bombings themselves, feed and tend to local cats and dogs.

Oh, how hard it was to abandon everything that I love… But I did not have a choice. I hugged our trees: cherries, apple and pear trees, plums and apricots, which my husband and I planted in the Spring of 2014 when the war started and he was drafted for the first time. I talked to our house that we built ourselves in 2013: «We love you very much, but we must run away. Sorry. Stand steadily, and until we meet again!». Me and my children left for a village 100km north of Mykolaiv, close to the town of Voznesensk. We drove for 9 hours. The roads were congested with traffic. People were fleeing the Kherson region.

Tetiana with her children. Evacuation

We were hoping that it would be safer there. But in a few days, Russian military convoys had reached Voznesensk. They began shelling the town with heavy artillery. Bloodshedding battles commenced. A military unit that was just a few kilometres away from where we were then was being hit by missiles. I read the news: the goal of the enemy forces is to capture the Southern Ukrainian nuclear power plant that is just 30km away from Voznesensk. When the Russians captured the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhia NPP, in early March, I was really scared that the same clashes would commence for our Southern Ukrainian NPP. So I began to look for an opportunity to get closer to the western border with my children. But the bridge to Mykolaiv had already been blown up. It was also not possible to reach Odesa by train since the railway bridge was destroyed as well. I accidentally came across a group of strangers on Facebook who agreed to take us to the evacuation train to Odesa. Going by car was dangerous: the roads were getting bombed and some territories were filled with mines. But we left at noon anyway. We rode into the unknown.

The «Odesa - Lviv» train

Odesa greeted us with a cold sea breeze and rain. We spent 17 hours waiting in line for the evacuation train headed to Lviv. The railway station was overcrowded. I found a small piece of empty space by the wall and we were finally able to sit down on the floor. Men, seeing their wives and children off at the train, sat next to us. Time after time they looked at us and asked us anxiously: «Make your children calm down or move away. You are irritating my kids. How can you even be so careless as to travel with such a small child?».

It came to me that it was unlikely for everyone to fit on the train. No one knew if there would be another train the next day and we did not have any place to stay. It was also impossible to come back. I called the police and explained our situation. A representative of the railway security called me back and said that he could help, as my husband, the father of my children, was among the defenders of the southern front among the Ukrainian Armed forces. He brought us to a group of people who, unlike us, were waiting for the train inside, in a dedicated room at the railway station. When the train arrived, we were told that we could enter one of the first four train cars. But nervous and exhausted people on the platform would not let us through. And once again the railway security representative helped us board the train. Me and my children managed to get in last. The train conductor informed us that we could enter any compartment that had less than six people in it. But everyone who had already got in refused to let us enter and would even push us out: nobody wanted to travel alongside a little baby. We had to leave our baggage behind. We only took a backpack with food and medicine. The saddest thing for me to leave behind was my son’s dobok (taekwondo uniform). But he reassured me: «Don’t worry. We’ve lost so much that my dobok is but a drop in the ocean». Then the train conductor proclaimed that the train would not take off until we were provided with a seat. Close to 2 AM we finally took off to Lviv. There was a Russian-speaking lady with three almost-adult children in our compartment who was travelling by the Red Cross programme to Germany. Her husband was working there and they’d already had free living quarters in Germany. She explained why she initially did not want to let us into the compartment: «The Red Cross promised us a comfortable trip. And we’ve earned it because we are from Mykolaiv. We went through stress».

Ruslan Khoda. Ukraine’s defender on the southern front. Died in battle in the Kherson region on August 4th 2022 at 14:00. This is the last photo of the hero

Lviv volunteers: all for the sake of victory

We reached Lviv in 12 hours. The railway station was as overcrowded as it was in Odesa. I did not know what to do next. I wanted to buy bus tickets to the Polish border. But there were none. I had to contact Ksenia Klym - a journalist, volunteer and the mother of Marko Klym, a Ukrainian soldier. In early March, Marko defended the Mykolaiv region from the Russian occupants, including the Voznesensk town, from which we travelled to Lviv. Ksenia came to the railway station right away and invited us to spend the night at her place, as my children were exhausted by such a long trip.

The following day Christina Brukhal, a volunteer from Lviv, helped us board an evacuation bus to Warsaw. At first, we came to a place where lady Christina and her colleagues had organised a shelter for people wanting to flee to Poland. Christina provided us with warm clothes so we would not get cold at night at the border. Additionally, she gave us diapers, child food and a new backpack. In the evening, when the bus arrived, almost all the volunteers went outside to bid us farewell. It was very touching: in such a short time, strangers in Lviv had bestowed so much love upon us that it was almost as if we had lived together our whole lives. They were with us until the last moment of our being in our Motherland. Everyone cried.

The same evening, Ksenia alongside other Lviv residents went to deliver humanitarian help for the warriors in the Mykolaiv region, where hellish battles were taking place.

Loss

My husband, Ruslan Khoda, went to the recruitment office on the first day. In 5 months, on August 4th 2022, he died in battle during a Russian artillery shelling near Lozove village in the Kherson region.

Ruslan was the Commander of the reconnaissance platoon within the 36th Separate Marine Brigade named after Counter Admiral Mykhailo Bilynskyi (military unit A2802, city of Mykolaiv).

Scouts are always the first ones to go. On July 25th Ruslan turned 37, and in 10 days his two children, Mykhailo (11 years old) and Myroslava (11 months old), became half-orphans.

Ruslan’s body, like many of his comrades who also died there, still has not been returned to his relatives. Russian troops had been constantly bombing the territory now called the Lozova Grave, so there was no burial. If the body is missing, the fallen soldier’s family cannot receive financial support from the government. Only on Christmas of 2023 did our children presents from the Red Cross: Myroslava - a Frozen doll, and Mykhailo - a chocolate bar and a bottle of water.

«Taekwondo Olsztyn» club coach Marcin Chożelevsky and Tetiana and Ruslan’s son. The boy enjoys the sports lessons

In the Autumn of 2022, an unknown woman called me on Viber and said: «My grandson was also there, where the Lozova Grave is now. Every day, my grandson watched through binoculars over Ruslan's body. At the first opportunity, he took him away. He asked me to tell you that Ruslan's body is in the ground. It's untouched by dogs, unpicked by birds. The bodies of all the soldiers who remained there rest in Ukrainian soil, and their souls continue to defend the South.»

In 2014, when the Russo-Ukrainian war started, Ruslan was drafted for the first time. Our son was three years old. Ruslan could flee to Poland like many people he knew did. After all, his mother, two sisters and nephews still live in the suburbs of Moscow. He took this step because for him it was a battle for the opportunity for people to choose their own future, for a chance to live in a fair world. And for him, the war was not over in 2015 when he came home: he was ready to pay the highest price for the victory of Ukraine.

Mykolaiv: a city on an explosive wave

Mykolaiv is called that since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. Russian forces repeatedly stormed the city, regularly shelled it with cruise missiles, cluster munitions, attacked with rocket artillery and targeted it with S-300 surface-to-air missiles. The occupants performed their largest shelling of Mykolaiv on the night of July 31st 2022. It was their most massive attack of the entire war.

The following day, Ruslan called me for the last time. He wanted to say goodbye because he knew that he would not make it alive from that fight: «You will make it. Your task is to raise our children as patriots, as decent people. Everything will be Ukraine!»

Again and again, I thought about what the war had taken from us: Russian missiles destroyed the student dormitory, where 18 years prior he and I met for the first time (during the beginning of the Orange Revolution of 2004); the Pedagogical university where he and I studied for 5 years; one of the facilities where Ruslan used to work; schools and hospitals, a church where we christened our children; a theatre that we would go on holidays… In terms of the scale of destruction and the number of bombings, the Mykolaiv region ranks third after the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

School in the village of Blagodatne in the Mykolaiv region destroyed by the Russian forces, July 19th 2023. Photo: Nina Liashonok/Ukrinform/ABACAPRESS.COM

Since April 2022, the city has been living without a centralised water supply. The Russians destroyed the water source which Mykolaiv was getting water from. As of July 2023, the overall damages inflicted upon Mykolaiv’s infrastructure due to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine have been estimated to be over 860 million euros. 159 civilians including 2 children in Mykolaiv and 16 children in the region have lost their lives to the full-scale war waged by Russia.

Life in Poland

In April 2022, I came to Olsztyn with my children - the capital of the Warmińsko-Mazurskie voivodeship. Here my son Mykhailo had the opportunity to continue practicing taekwondo. It is more than just sports for our family. Grigoriy Khozyainov, my son’s and husband’s coach, the head of the Mykolaiv Regional Taekwondo Federation, senior coach for the Ukrainian national cadet team, participated in battles for Mariupol, in the Mykolaiv region and the Kherson region as part of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade named after Counter Admiral Mykhailo Bilynskyi. He was declared MIA (missing in action) on November 7th 2022 during battles on the outskirts of Bakhmut. He was 50 years old.

During his lifetime, our coach managed to bring up a World Champion among cadets, Champions of Europe and winners of many international and Ukrainian tournaments. My husband was among the first students of Grigoriy Khozyainov. Ruslan grew up in a large family. His parents often could not afford the training fee. When his coach found out about it, he said that talented kids could study for free under his mentorship. And because of that, later on, Ruslan volunteered as a children’s coach in the Shevchenko community on the outskirts of Mykolaiv. Maybe he found himself in those kids, as it was too expensive and difficult for them to go to the city for training. The last taekwondo training session that my husband conducted ended at 6 PM on Wednesday, February 23 2022, in the village of Shevchenkove, Mykolaiv region, which was among the villages that suffered the most from Russian shellings. Possibly, the building in which Ruslan used to teach taekwondo does not exist anymore.

My husband wanted to serve in the 36th brigade in particular because our coach had been serving there since Autumn of 2022. Grigory Borysovych felt the imminence of the war. He was offered work as a coach in European countries multiple times but he chose a different path: he left to defend the Donetsk frontline.

When Ruslan died, his coach was distressed by the tragedy. Ruslan was like a son to him. To comfort Grigory Borysovych at least somehow, my son promised him that he would take his father’s place and conduct trainings for the children of the Shevchenko community when we came back to Mykolaiv. The coach could not hold back his tears.

In Olsztyn, my son once again has the opportunity to be with his taekwondo family. He has been training free of pay here for over a year now. Coach Marcin Chożelevsky has given him a new dobok. On May 20th 2023, the Kujawsko-Pomorska league tournaments took place in Bydgoszcz. Mykhailo won a golden medal.

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Journalist, editor of the Mykolaiv branch of the National Public Broadcasting Company of Ukraine. Author of TV and radio programs, reports, and articles on military, environmental, cultural, social and European topics. Published in the newspaper of the Ukrainian diaspora in Poland «Our Word», on the nationwide website «Eurointegration Portal» of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister for European and Euro-Atlantic Integration and the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center. Participates in international training programs for journalists: Deutsche Welle Akademie, Media Neighbourhood (BBC Media Action), Thomson Foundation, and others. Co-organiser of various events and training sessions: educational and cultural projects for refugees in Poland, implemented by Caritas, Federation of NGOs FOSa; «Culture Helps», implemented by Osvita (UA) and Zusa (DE). Co-author of the book «A Heart Devoted to the People» about the history of southern Ukraine. Published articles on military topics in the books «War in Ukraine. Kyiv - Warsaw: Together to Victory» (Poland, 2022) and «Environmental Readings: Preserving for Future Generations» (Ukraine, 2022).

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Українці сьогодні ставлять собі обґрунтоване запитання: хто відбудовуватиме Україну, якщо біженці не повернуться? В умовах драматичної демографічної ситуації це питання звучить особливо болісно. Проте останні дані з Польщі хоч і можуть на перший погляд занепокоїти, насправді розповідають іншу історію — не про втрату, а про неймовірну силу та потенціал, що гартується на чужині й чекає на свій час.

Звіт компанії Deloitte про становище українських біженців у Польщі змальовує картину надзвичайної стійкості й рішучості. Пам'ятаймо, про кого ми говоримо. Це не анонімна міграція. Це насамперед українські жінки й діти. Аж 67% домогосподарств утримують самотні жінки, які в чужій країні взяли на свої плечі долю всієї родини, борючись із травмою війни та щоденною непевністю щодо долі близьких. Їхня здатність стати на ноги та знайти роботу в таких складних умовах є першим потужним доказом сили українського духу.

Доказ цінності, а не аргумент залишатися

Внесок українців у польську економіку вражає. У 2024 році вони додали до польського ВВП аж 2,7%, що відповідає сумі майже 99 мільярдів злотих доданої вартості

Завдяки сплаченим українцями податкам і внескам доходи державного бюджету зросли на 2,94%. Ці цифри не слід сприймати як втрату для України. Навпаки — це твердий доказ величезної цінності українського людського капіталу. Доказ того, що українці навіть у несприятливих умовах здатні творити, будувати й робити величезний внесок у розвиток. А отже, можна зробити висновок, що цей самий людський капітал може стати ключовим ресурсом у процесі відбудови вільної України.

Ба більше, аналіз спростовує міф про нібито конкуренцію. Дані показують, що в повітах, де частка біженців у зайнятості зросла на один відсотковий пункт, зайнятість громадян Польщі зросла на 0,5%, а безробіття знизилося на 0,3%. Виявилося, що присутність українських працівників стала для польської економіки стимулом до підвищення продуктивності й дала полякам можливість перейти на краще оплачувані та більш відповідальні посади.

Надзвичайно промовистим є також професійне зростання самих українців. Медіана їхньої заробітної плати протягом двох років зросла з 3100 злотих до 4000 злотих нетто, наблизившись до рівня 84% медіани по країні. Це доказ не лише рішучості, але й блискавичної адаптації. Не менш важливим є той факт, що біженці переважно утримують себе самі. Дослідження UNHCR за 2024 рік показують, що аж 80% доходів у їхніх домогосподарствах походять від праці. Соціальні виплати, переважно 800+ на дітей, становлять лише 14% їхніх доходів, і ця частка не зросла попри підвищення суми виплати. 

Це один з найшвидших процесів економічної інтеграції в історії сучасних міграцій у Європі

Цю картину співпраці, яка приносить користь обом сторонам, підтверджують не лише аналітики. Її можна почути й у голосах польських підприємців, які щодня бачать, як нова енергія живить їхні компанії.

«Польща перебуває в комфортній ситуації, бо вона не лише допомагає людям у потребі, а й заробляє завдяки їхній праці. Рідко трапляється, щоб у такому масштабі етика йшла пліч-о-пліч з прагматизмом», — коментує власник польської фірми, яка працевлаштовує чимало працівників з України, переважно жінок. Він просить зберегти анонімність, бо «останні голоси від нового мешканця Бельведеру вказують на інший напрямок».

Слова підприємця чудово віддзеркалюють парадокс, у якому опинилася Польща. Його прохання про анонімність не є випадковим. У періоди виборчих кампаній побоювання, пов'язані з міграцією, стають легким політичним паливом для частини політичної сцени. Гасла про нібито «відбирання робочих місць» чи «надмірне навантаження на бюджет» хоч і суперечать реальним даним, часом свідомо використовуються для мобілізації електорату. Це створює атмосферу невизначеності, в якій навіть позитивні економічні факти відсуваються на другий план гучнішим, негативним наративом.

Скарб, що чекає на розкриття — в Україні

Однак найважливіший висновок зі звіту — це величезний, досі не використаний потенціал. Аж 40% біженців працездатного віку мають вищу освіту, але лише 12% з них працюють на посадах, що вимагають таких кваліфікацій (порівняно з 37% серед поляків). Основні бар'єри:

  • Мова: Лише 18% біженців заявляють про вільне володіння польською мовою.
  • Регуляції: У регульованих професіях, як-от лікар чи архітектор, працюють лише 3,6% біженців (серед поляків — 10,6%).
  • Громадянство: Багато професій у державному секторі (наприклад, вчитель, медсестра, медичний рятувальник) залишаються формально закритими для осіб без польського паспорта незалежно від їхньої фактичної кваліфікації.

Аналітики підрахували, що якби Польща розблокувала бодай половину цього потенціалу, її економіка отримала б щонайменше 6 мільярдів злотих на рік, з яких понад 2,5 мільярди надійшли б безпосередньо до держбюджету. Це сума, порівняна з великою податковою реформою.

Парадокс інтеграції

Сьогодні працевлаштовано 69% дорослих біженців працездатного віку, а серед жінок цей показник становить 70% — лише на 2 відсоткові пункти менше, ніж серед польок. Однак проблеми починаються у віковій групі 25-39 років, де українські матері працюють значно рідше через брак системної підтримки у догляді за малими дітьми.

Цікаво, що дані демонструють певний парадокс. З одного боку, професійна інтеграція та знаходження нормальної роботи призводять до того, що біженці рідше планують повернення в Україну. З іншого боку — доступ до освіти та державних послуг, тобто соціальна інтеграція, збільшує готовність до повернення, оскільки дає відчуття стабільності й здатність свідомо планувати майбутнє. Це означає, що, допомагаючи людям знайти себе в суспільстві, їх не обов’язково «відбирають» в України — радше дають їм сили для ухвалення свідомого рішення про повернення, коли це стане можливим.

Саме досвід, здобутий за кордоном, може стати безцінною інвестицією в майбутнє. Це знання стандартів ЄС, ділові контакти, нові навички. Це капітал, який повернеться в Україну разом з людьми — майбутніми підприємцями та лідерами відбудови.

Однак у всіх цих дебатах про відсотки ВВП та стратегії найрідше чути голос тих, кого це стосується найбільше. Їхнє почуття безпеки крихке, бо залежить не лише від економічної стабільності, а й від соціальної атмосфери. А вона в свою чергу буває отруєна політичною грою, в якій гасла на кшталт «час закінчити з преференціями» чи «захист кордонів від напливу чужинців» стають інструментом для здобуття підтримки. Це відчуття «небажаного гостя» найкраще передає допис з форуму української діаспори:

«Якщо ти біженка, яка втратила все, що нажила за життя, чоловік пішов на фронт, а ти з дітьми мусила панічно тікати за кордон і день у день живеш питанням, чи буде до чого і до кого повертатися, чи все ж залишитися в Польщі, бо тут поки що безпечно, хоча дедалі частіше відчуваєш, що ти тут небажана гостя (...) то чи почувалася б ти в безпеці?»

Ці слова нагадують, що ключем до всього є перемога та створення в Україні безпечного, справедливого і перспективного майбутнього. Це сила, яка може повернутися і в майбутньому живити Україну. Однак, ключовим буде створення умов, які дозволять цим людям безпечно жити й використовувати здобутий досвід у власній країні.

20
хв

Сила, що чекає на повернення: українці в Польщі — не втрачений, а загартований потенціал для відбудови

Єжи Вуйцік

Joanna Mosiej: I would like to begin our conversation with your family history, because on many levels it serves as a metaphor for our Polish-Ukrainian relations. I am referring to your ancestors, the Szeptycki brothers. Roman (Andrey Sheptytsky - head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Metropolitan of Galicia, Archbishop of Lviv (1901–1944) - Edit.) converted to the Greek Catholic faith, entered a monastery, and later became Metropolitan. Another brother, Stanisław, first served in the Austrian army, and after the war became a general in the Polish army. Both were patriots, individuals deeply devoted to the countries they served. And they maintained a fraternal bond.

Professor Andrzej Szeptycki: Of the five Szeptycki brothers, two identified themselves as Ukrainians - Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky and Blessed Father Klymentiy - and three were Poles. I am referring to General Stanisław Szeptycki and also his brothers, Aleksander and my great-grandfather Leon. Metropolitan Andrey and Father Klymentiy regularly came on holiday to rest at the family home in Prylbichi in the Yavoriv district, where my great-grandfather Leon Szeptycki later lived. Despite their national differences, they maintained good relations with each other until the end of their lives.

Professor Andrzej Szeptycki. Photo: Michal Zebrowski / East News

They proved to us that different national identities can coexist without excluding one another.

I believe it was also very important that in the case of each of them, national identity was a significant element of life, but not the only one. In the case of Metropolitan Andrey and Father Klymentiy, their vocation and religious choices were primary as clergy. General Stanisław Szeptycki, as a soldier of that time, first served in the Austro-Hungarian and then in the Polish army and sought to serve his country well. They were certainly patriots - of each nation with which they identified. On the other hand, it is very important that they were certainly not nationalists. And this allowed them to respect different views while remaining close to one another.

Was such a legacy, a borderland identity, a value or a curse for your family? How does it define you?

During the communist period, it was somewhat of a challenge, a burden. The communist authorities viewed representatives of the former noble class negatively. In the case of the Szeptycki family, this was further combined with a very strong propaganda narrative directed against Ukrainians in Poland. And, of course, directed personally against Metropolitan Andrey, who was portrayed as a Ukrainian nationalist and spiritual father of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. During the communist period, and even in the 1990s, relatives quite regularly heard that Szeptycki is a Banderite». Nowadays, this has practically disappeared. I experienced this myself in 2023 when I was running an election campaign. The few voter reactions to my name were generally positive. In this sense, it is a significant change.

Apart from comments on social media, of course.

Yes, there I am often called Szeptycki - a Ukrainian, a Banderite. And surely there is a portion of society that will always react in this way. Returning to how it defines me, ever since our student years, my cousins and I have quite often travelled around Ukraine.

Some of us needed only one trip, while others stayed longer, for life. My cousin moved to Lviv a few years ago at the age of 50. Another cousin established the Szeptycki Family Foundation, which became actively involved in supporting Ukraine after February 24th 2022.

Photo: Karina Krystosiak/REPORTER

How do you explain this outburst of solidarity among us in 2022?

I believe there are three important factors. Firstly, the simple human need to help. Altruism which arises when we witness the suffering of others and react without much consideration.

Secondly, the shared experience of Russian imperialism. This has always resonated with Polish society. It is worth recalling the Polish response to the war in Chechnya - the reception of refugees, the clear sympathies. Or the year 2008 and the war in Georgia. Poland does not have strong cultural or geographical ties with Georgia, yet the reaction was vivid. We remember President Lech Kaczyński’s visit to Tbilisi and his prophetic words: today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after, perhaps the Baltic states, and then Poland. But most importantly - and in my opinion decisively - is the fact that none of this arose in a vacuum. This solidarity did not suddenly sprout in a desert, but on rather fertile ground which Poles and Ukrainians had been cultivating together over the past three decades.

From the 1990s, both sides carried out considerable work to develop interpersonal contacts. In 2022, many Poles were not helping «refugees». We were, for the most part, simply helping friends

Keeping in mind the great importance of the prior presence of Ukrainian refugees who had arrived in Poland since 2014, economic migrants from Ukraine, and the Ukrainian minority, primarily descendants of the victims of Operation Vistula.

Of course. Since the beginning of the war, that is, since 2014, or even since 2004, the Ukrainian minority in Poland has played an important role in supporting Ukraine - collecting funds, purchasing equipment, sending that equipment to the frontline. And receiving Ukrainian military refugees after February 24th 2022. Undoubtedly, the role of this community cannot be overestimated.

Precisely. You have been researching Polish-Ukrainian relations for many years. How have they changed? How has the Poles’ perception of Ukrainians changed?

It has been a long process. From the establishment of mutual contacts in the 1990s, through the Orange Revolution, the Revolution of Dignity - up to 2022. And, on the other hand, through the long-term presence in Poland of a significant group of economic migrants from Ukraine. Let us not forget that none of this would have been possible without the consistency of Poland’s Eastern policy and the legacy of the thought of the Paris-based «Kultura» and Jerzy Giedroyc personally. This belief in the importance of Ukraine, the importance of good relations, the necessity of support.

We were the first country to recognise Ukraine’s independence.

And it is worth mentioning a very important, albeit little-known, moment in Polish-Ukrainian relations on the eve of the USSR’s collapse, namely the participation of the Polish delegation of civic committees in the 1st Congress of the People’s Movement in Kyiv in 1989. The presence of representatives of the Polish civic committees, including Adam Michnik and Bogdan Borusewicz, was a symbolic gesture of support for Ukraine from Polish «Solidarity» at a time when Poland was still part of the Warsaw Pact and Ukraine still within the USSR.

Photo: Łukasz Gdak/East News

And what were the subsequent milestones of our cooperation?

First and foremost, the three key events of the past two decades, which I have already mentioned: the Orange Revolution, the Revolution of Dignity, and the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. Each of these was met in Poland with clear public interest and a broad response of solidarity.

A sense of shared destiny, the legacy of Solidarity and the struggle for independence played an important role. At times, analogies were even drawn: it was said that Ukrainians in 2022 found themselves in a situation similar to that faced by Poles during the Second World War. The exhibition «Warsaw - Mariupol: cities of ruins, cities of struggle, cities of hope» was one such attempt to draw this symbolic parallel: cities levelled to the ground, the suffering of civilians, resistance. But it was also accompanied by another, no less important conviction: that Ukrainians today are facing something we, fortunately, are not experiencing - a classic violent conflict with Russian imperialism. And this solidarity manifested itself in Polish assistance.

What can we do to ensure this unprecedented solidarity seen in 2022 is not wasted? Today, in addition to the demons of the past, such as Volyn’ and the issue of exhumations, there are pressing social and economic problems.

Firstly, it is important to realise that no surge of solidarity lasts forever. The enthusiasm for Ukrainians that erupted after the beginning of the Russian invasion has gradually waned, and we are now in a phase where tension and fatigue are beginning to accumulate.

For most of its recent history, Poland has been a country of emigration - people left in search of work, bread, a better life. The issue of immigration was virtually absent from public debate. Today, the situation has changed. Around two million Ukrainians live in Poland - both economic migrants and people who fled the war. This is an entirely new social reality and a challenge to which we must respond consciously. Other challenges, including economic ones, must also be taken into account.

The pandemic, war and inflation - all of these influence the public sentiment. When people start running out of money, their willingness to show solidarity with «new neighbours» may weaken

Especially since they are constantly exposed to populist narratives claiming that immigrants take away our social benefits and our places in the queue for doctors. And that Ukraine does not agree to exhumations.

Yes, this is precisely why Polish-Ukrainian relations are no longer merely a matter of the past, but one of the key challenges for the future of Central and Eastern Europe. It is therefore important to defuse historical disputes, such as those concerning exhumations. It is very good that an agreement has recently been reached on this issue. Even if discussions on exhumations in the short term revive the Volyn’ issue, in the long term they will help resolve it. However, it is important to recognise - and I say this quite often to both Polish and Ukrainian partners - that at present, the key issue is not history. A major challenge lies in the broad economic matters related to Ukraine’s accession to the European Union.

We must recognise that Ukraine is not a failed state from which only unskilled workers or refugees come to Poland.

Despite the war, Ukraine has advantages in many areas that will pose a challenge to Poland when it joins the EU single market

Of course, Ukraine's accession to the EU is in Poland’s strategic interest. However, these are developments that we must be aware of, which we must closely observe and take action to prevent conflicts in these areas.

Therefore, at present, the real challenge is not the issue of the Volyn’ massacre, but rather how to adapt the common agricultural policy to the potential of Ukrainian agriculture. Naturally, it is also essential to prevent the escalation of social antagonism.

Photo: Jakub Orzechowski / Agencja Wyborcza.pl

How does Polish-Ukrainian academic cooperation appear against this background?

Today, around 9% of students at Polish universities are international, almost half of whom are Ukrainian. The academic world, in line with its longstanding European tradition, is multinational. Universities have always been places of openness and tolerance; today, they develop programmes for support, equality and diversity. These are initiatives and responsibilities undertaken by the universities themselves.

Of course, there are always areas that can be improved. I am thinking, for example, of efforts to achieve better integration within the university. It often happens that we have two or three student communities living separately – students from Poland, English-speaking students and students from the East, mainly Ukrainians and Belarusians. We are working to ensure that these two or three communities come closer together.

You are responsible for international cooperation. In Ukraine, claims are heard that Poland is «draining» its intellectual capital. This is a well-known phenomenon here too - for years, it has been said that the best Polish academics leave for the West. What does this circulation between Poland and Ukraine look like?

Before February 24th 2022, around 500 Ukrainian academics worked in Polish universities. After the outbreak of war, this number doubled. Initially, there were special support measures - help with finding housing, work, a safe place - but quite quickly we realised that a change of perspective was needed.

Our goal is not a brain drain, but a brain circulation - a circulation of knowledge, ideas and experience

This is precisely why today, as a ministry, we support projects involving researchers and institutions from both countries. Those that build a joint research space.

A concrete example of such cooperation is the project of Vasyl Stefanyk Precarpathian National University in Ivano-Frankivsk, which, together with the Centre for East European Studies, rebuilt the pre-war university observatory «White Elephant» on Mount Pip Ivan. A functioning research station was created from ruins. Now the two universities are seeking funding for a telescope, the third stage of the project. This is an example of concrete cooperation based on partnership, not asymmetry.

Another example is Mykulychyn, a village in the Ukrainian Carpathians, where a Polish-Ukrainian youth meeting centre is being built. During my recent visit there, the first meeting took place with the participation of students from several Ukrainian universities and the University of Warsaw. It is in such places - in conversations, debates, joint projects - that the next generation of mutual understanding is born.

There is a real chance that this generation will get to know each other not through stereotypes, but through experience and culture.

Yes, but much work still lies ahead. I remember a study conducted, I believe, in 2021. Poles were asked which Ukrainian authors they knew, and Ukrainians were asked which Polish authors they knew. It turned out that 95% of Poles had never read a book by a Ukrainian author - and vice versa. What followed was even more interesting. Ukrainians associated Polish authors with Sienkiewicz and Sapkowski, while Poles named Gogol and Oksana Zabuzhko among Ukrainian authors. In terms of getting to know one another, including through culture, we still have much work to do.

But it is also important not to reduce each other to a kind of ethno-folklore, because we have much more to offer one another. We are united by common aspirations and hopes. And commonality does not always arise from similarity. It also arises from the desire to coexist despite differences and wounds.

20
хв

Poland and Ukraine: we want to coexist despite differences and wounds

Joanna Mosiej

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